tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post823470099583665503..comments2023-04-27T04:20:37.175-07:00Comments on My Name Is IRL: A Swift response to the Delta WingIannuccihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15120192496901254768noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-58380434485965007782010-02-25T20:23:40.019-07:002010-02-25T20:23:40.019-07:00Well said. The goals of the Delta are laudable but...Well said. The goals of the Delta are laudable but the product is laughable. That design would be a sad end to Indycar.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08770532353299175152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-20601737072100722252010-02-23T09:48:42.632-07:002010-02-23T09:48:42.632-07:00Point taken. I guess I missed your original point ...Point taken. I guess I missed your original point a little bit.<br /><br />I think we're almost 100% together on the second thing there. I just think that there can be a balance between "sport-ertainment" and "science class". It doesn't have to be just one or the other. I think that you can keep the portion of the fanbase who are here for the entertainment aspect (the folks who are into rooting for favorite drivers, and folks who like close, photo-finish racing) while also making the cars more interesting to the "car guys" who are not interested in spec racing, all while not blowing costs out the roof. It's a delicate ballet to perform, but I think with the right brains in the room, it can be done.<br /><br />To clarify my point, which may have gotten lost in all that freaking text I wrote (and a point that you're making too, Jeff): I think the Delta Wing guys *should* make concessions on the appearance of the car. There's no reason whatsoever that the cars should be limited to 300-325 HP. If they increase the drag by 40% over the Chicago show car (by, say, widening the nose and putting the front wheels further apart), then 450 HP will do the same thing that 300 will for the Chicago car. 450 HP would actually be a de-tuned number for the Mazda ALMS engine. De-tuned = better fuel economy, better reliability and more time between rebuilds (this for an engine that can already do 12 and 24 hour races). I don't get why the DW guys are steadfastly saying "the car is going to be a triangle; no ifs, ands or buts". I think they're cutting their own throat in the court of fan opinion there.The SpeedGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515637541673575394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-22477867376688375992010-02-23T08:44:52.410-07:002010-02-23T08:44:52.410-07:00I compared the Aztek to the DeltaWing in terms of ...I compared the Aztek to the DeltaWing in terms of visceral reaction - not in terms of total design process. <br /><br />People can make arguments of the awesome functionality of either vehicle, but this is entertainment and not a science class. If the looks are repulsive to a significant portion of the public then it will fail as a product.Iannuccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120192496901254768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-76834619378706743302010-02-23T08:40:22.704-07:002010-02-23T08:40:22.704-07:00The part of the Aztek analogy that I do like, thou...The part of the Aztek analogy that I do like, though, is that GM messed up their desired customer versus their actual customers. GM styled the Aztek so that it would appeal to Gen-Xers and the "young folks", what with their tattoos and their piercings and their baggy pants, and who like the X-treme sports and the rap music or whatever. Only problem was, those people, even if they did like it (it's not entirely clear if they did, though I doubt it) could not afford a brand new Pontiac Aztek. The people who could afford a brand new Pontiac Aztek (soccer moms, NASCAR dads, whatever other middle age-ish demo you might come up with) all thought the thing was hideous, and so they basically never sold any.<br /><br />Moral to the story: you can not chase a new demographic while completely ignoring your current demographic. If you do something that encourages your current fanbase to abandon you and your new fanbase never shows up, you go out of business. This is what IndyCar (and the group behind the Delta Wing) needs to keep in mind.The SpeedGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515637541673575394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-52581455369630432002010-02-23T07:47:12.617-07:002010-02-23T07:47:12.617-07:00Actually, the flaw with the Aztek analogy is that ...Actually, the flaw with the Aztek analogy is that the Aztek was possibly the most "focus grouped" car ever built by Detroit. They actually asked *too many* people what it should be. It's a fantastic illustration of how focus groups will lead you to stuff like good ergonomics and a nice, functional interior (both of which the Aztek had in spades, and bravo to GM for getting that right), but that stuff like great styling is best left to people who, you know, know how to style cars. Otherwise, you wind up with the Homer Simpson-mobile.<br /><br />I just think that the "styling" of the Delta Wing is a case of form completely taking a back seat to function. That's OK when you're selling stuff like power tools, beacuse nobody cares much about how one drill looks compared to another. However, when you're selling a product that is supposed to elicit a passionate response from the customer, then it's probably a good idea to make sure that a huge percentage of your potential customer base doesn't have a passionately negative response. It's a case where they could make a 10-20% concession in the "function" column (i.e. a little more drag, a little more power to offset that drag) and make a 50-60% gain in the "form" column (i.e. the car not looking like something from an adult toy shop anymore). Unfortunately, from what Bowlby's been saying through Cavin and other outlets, it doesn't sound like that's in the cards for the DW. Too bad.The SpeedGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515637541673575394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-6806486742334515412010-02-23T06:55:12.611-07:002010-02-23T06:55:12.611-07:00Yes, yes. Well spoken. Agree agree. The Pontiac Az...Yes, yes. Well spoken. Agree agree. The Pontiac Aztek is the PERFECT illustration of function-led form that NOBODY WANTS TO BUY. Thanks for the festival of linkage.pressdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14116626812974787639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-62260608719981911362010-02-22T14:32:31.318-07:002010-02-22T14:32:31.318-07:00JP,
Yours is a good example of how the open sourc...JP,<br /><br />Yours is a good example of how the open source concept is an advantage. The negative is that suppliers cannot recoup the cost for design and prototyping, or for intellectual property. <br /><br />Fixed cost for the components earns the supplier a royalty, but somebody has to pay the freight for design work which does not come straight from Delta blueprints.<br /><br />Otherwise, it's spec cars from spec component designs, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-16730351663913945562010-02-22T13:25:58.014-07:002010-02-22T13:25:58.014-07:00If memory serves, the open source part of the phil...If memory serves, the open source part of the philosophy also stated that the developer had to offer the enhanced part at market value to the standard part, so if Penske developed a $100k replacement to a part that is $10k on the spec vehicle they would have to sell it @ $10k and not $100k. That serves to limit just how much uber engineering goes on.JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04984813506930468025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25142730.post-82723640563611851242010-02-22T12:24:17.745-07:002010-02-22T12:24:17.745-07:00Maybe next, somebody will point out that nothing g...Maybe next, somebody will point out that nothing gets built until an engine spec is defined.<br /><br />Delta's choice of a $140K engine was a requirement for their low gross weight. I'd argue that the ARE's expense is not necessary to suit the power requirements of the other chassis.<br /><br />I thought the Dallara #3 was a good concept rendering: if you extend the sidepods forward on their drawing, and delete part of the engine cowling, don't you wind up with essentially the same configuration as the Swift #32? <br /><br />Either one works for me, that gets the safety factor of wheel contact handled, and yields a race car quite distinctive from F1.<br /><br />Andy BernsteinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com